"Hypo" Javan project

I thought I'd start a separate thread for this one. I'll - hopefully get to - update this one in the future.
I know I posted some of the pics on another thread, but in case it's not violating any rules I'll post some again as I think it's better to have all the relevant info under the same thread.

Some of you may already know about this, so it may be old news to you.
Perhaps there are additional people interested in this little project, who knows.

Andreas Gumprect bred WC Javans, and from his litter my 1.2 babies (siblings) were acquired in 2003. A huge thanks to my buddy Harri Tourunen who took care of that deal.
In 2005 I got my first litter, and among that was an almost white female, which I've referred to as a "Hypo". Is that a correct term or not, I must admit that I'm not sure. I've produced nearly 40 babies from the same adult pair, and although last year saw the birth of another obviously lighter female, none have compared to the original "Hypo" in appearance.

Here she is pictured with her 'normal' mother.

And this is her 'normal' father, with which she copulated in November, 2007.

Last Sunday, June 29th, the "Hypo" had given birth. It had been a nervous waiting, and finally there were babies.
I was very excited, but unfortunately I had some bad luck fall upon me... I did spot two very different males in the terrarium, but both were dead. They obviously had moved in the terrarium, but both were in the bottom, so I assumed that they might have been run over by their mom. Not only were they clearly different from normal babies, but they looked different from each other as well!

Eventually I picked up 6.4 live babies, all looking normal. They may well have been the most aggressive litter of puniceus I've seen. Tails vibrating and they continually struck at me and, well, at any movement. Some were striking so hard that they literally jumped forward and even tipped themselves over Laughing

Here are the two "Hypo" males.
My limited photographic skills don't do them justice, you could really tell them apart from normal males a mile away.

Here is a normal male from the same litter.

And a normal female from the same litter as well.

I will keep working with this line in the hopes of producing a live "Hypo" male in the future.
Again, any thoughts and comments are welcome.

Hello Christian,

very nice informations! thanks, i am looking forward to see more about it and i am very sorry for the lost!

cheers
Mario
_________________
aquila non capit muscas

Man, I hope that you are doing okay! I know how much you love your snakes and how much you stress over them, so I know how disappointed you are. You'll just have to keep your head up and keep trying. I think that these things just happen sometimes and there's nothing you could do different. Keep up the good work!

I think that you're definitely onto something weird there. I'm not very familiar with the species, so I can't say for certain, but they look different to me without a doubt.

Thank you for the nice words Mario, I really appreciate that.
Hopefully I'd have some better news in the future.

To be honest, Derek, I've really been rather disappointed and depressed; as an insult to injury I also lost the black female squamigera two days ago.
Your words of encouragment couldn't have come at a more proper time. So thank you very much friend.

Hi Christian,
as my knowledge in colormorphs is really thin, I would like to ask how you define "Hypo"?
Do you mean a pale color or do you mean missing black?

Regards Jörg

Hello Jörg.

Well, I have to be honest with you; I'm not very good on the various color morphs either.
In this case I meant to refer to a situation where all the dark pigments are extremely diminished (as in hypomelanistic, in case I've understood the term correctly).
Looking at the female in question, I can't help but think if amelanistic would indeed be a more appropriate term. I really can't find any dark tones on her whatsoever.

Since at this point I'm not quite sure which would be more correct term to refer to her, I'm stuck with "Hypo". But that's also the reason why I use the term in quotes.

So Mario,
if I understood right, your both Java females could look the same as adult ones as Christians "Hypo".
What color do they have now?

OH NO!!! What happened with the squam female?!! Man, that is horrible to hear. I'm sorry for your loss and I hope that everything is okay with you. I would be bummed out too.

Back to the topic with the puniceus....David and I were told something about the reflection in the eyes that could tell you whether it was amelanistic or hypo. You shine a light in their eyes and if the shine back is red, they are _____. But if the light shines back silver, they are ____. Sorry, I don't remember it all. Also, if the shed skin is completely devoid of any pattern and is completely white, that is a good indicator that they are hypo. We had to talk to ball python and boa breeders to get the information on the morphs because we are both morph idiots, too. Very Happy

Not sure, Derek. I believe there was a bit of an obstruction, which was relieved by constant soaking, spraying and giving her paraffin oil. She was alert etc and after passing feces even ate, but several days later regurgitated and died.
She was perhaps the tiniest in her litter, and wasn't eating and growing as fast as the others.

Well, back to the original topic. I have some updates on that.
The original "Hypo" female certainly doesn't have a red eyeshine, I'd say silver is closer to the truth. Also, she just shed a few days ago, and the shed was white, no traces of pattern to be found.
Wonder if I could start using the term "Hypo" without the quotes Smile

Indeed, the two odd males were dead, but as the siblings have shed and grown, one male has stood out from the crowd. It appears very pale, especially the background color, compared to normal males.
This is the best shot of him so far, but I think the difference can be seen, although perhaps not as well as up close and in person.

Normal male on the left.

Recently I acquired this gorgeous T. puniceus. She is a WC individual said to be collected from Java.
I would be really happy if she'd settle to her new home, and perhaps participate in this little Javan project I have going on Very Happy

Edit:
I'm not sure if I'm seeing things, but it seems as if the normal babies from the "Hypo" female would have sharper and a bit brighter colors compared to my previous litters of Javans scratch